I stuffed my first bird for TDay this year and did it in the oven.

I used about 14C of dried bread, 1 lb pork breakfast sausage, 2C diced onions, 2C diced celery, all the green celery leaves from a bunch chopped fine, 2 C of diced pear and 3/4C of dried cranberries, sage, thyme, s&p.

Almost browned the sausage, left the grease in and added the celery and onions and continued browning until soft. Added the bread to this, then 1C chicken stock, then slowly mixed in about another C of chicken stock about 1/4C at a time ... add, stir, wait, stir, check (grab a handful and see if it sticks together when squeezed) ... repeat. Adjust spice and salt level. Stuffed the cavity and neck of an 18lb bird.

Saw some recipes that call for egg (binder) but decided against it, but might try it some time. Considered ginger and walnuts but folks with those allergies were coming over so they were ruled out (the ingrediants ... not the guests ). Considered adding mushrooms ... might try that too. I think I'd like to add diced dried apricot.

It was quite good, perhaps a bit dry but I'd rather that than mush.

How do you all make stuffing?

Make it about like you, but my wife toasts the bread lightly to make the stuffing. We prefer egg bread.

Dried cranberries sounds interesting, my wife uses some apples, I like the neutral flavor that Golden Delicious has.

I think my wife might put some oil in it, I'll ask her. We usually do an oil and garlic type baste for it, so that gets in the stuffing anyway.

Last years was the best ever IMO. It was made from sausage, grilled portabellas, potato bread, and sourdough bread, along with chicken stock, celery, onions, salt & pepper, eggs, parsley, and sage. I'll be making it again this year. Nice and moist with tons of flavor. I sliced up the leftovers and pan fried in butter the rest of the week. I did not stuff the bird though, I always make it in a casserole dish.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bryan S,

I am not one for meat in stuffing. I always make it in the bird (never cared for 'dressing'). My go-to has cornbread, white bread (toasted), apples, onion, celery, currants, pecans, sage, thyme, egg, parsley, butter, pepper, and stock. The baste I make is stock, reduced cheap white wine, parsley, thyme and sage stems, butter, honey, and pepper. I baste quite frequently so the baste also flavors the stuffing.

Stuffing mix after making: cornbread, cubed dried baguette, onion, celery, Granny Smith apple, currants, pecans, sage, parsley, thyme, herbes de provence. Not yet added: turkey/chicken stock and egg:



Baste mix of turkey/chicken stock, wine, parsley and sage stems, peppercorns, bay, honey:

This message has been edited. Last edited by: K Kruger,

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan S:
Last years was the best ever IMO. It was made from sausage, grilled portabellas, potato bread, and sourdough bread, along with chicken stock, celery, onions, salt & pepper, eggs, parsley, and sage. I'll be making it again this year. Nice and moist with tons of flavor. I sliced up the leftovers and pan fried in butter the rest of the week. I did not stuff the bird though, I always make it in a casserole dish.

That sounds great Bryan, thanks for the panfried in butter reheat tip!

quote:

Originally posted by K Kruger:
I am not one for meat in stuffing. I always make it in the bird (never cared for 'dressing'). My go-to has cornbread, white bread (toasted), apples, onion, celery, currants, pecans, sage, thyme, egg, parsley, butter, pepper, and stock. The baste I make is stock, reduced cheap white wine, parsley, thyme and sage stems, butter, honey, and pepper. I baste quite frequently so the baste also flavors the stuffing.

I'd heard of meat in stuffing and just had to try it. I like the cornbread and toasted white bread idea. I would have liked to add nuts but as I mentioned there is a nut allergy in the family. Perhaps some steel cut oats or wild rice cooked for 15 - 30 mins and drained could go in the stuffing to add some nuttiness?

Couple of q's:

What's the difference between dressing and stuffing? Stuffing is cooked in meat, dressing is not?

Both you and Alan talk about basting ... I baste the bird with pan juice, but didn't go out of my way to baste the stuffing ... the neck stuffing on my bird was covered by a generous piece of skin and I covered the cavity stuffing with foil after a couple of hours ... are you talking about basting the stuffing or the bird?

Shawn, usually if a bird is stuffed, that's stuffing, anything baked out of the bird is dressing. My wife does a combo of maple and sage sausage with some ground beef for her bread stuffing. My brother uses Chorizo, corn bread and green chilis for his, Rice would probably be a good sub for the corn bread.
HTH.
Tim

quote:

I'd heard of meat in stuffing and just had to try it. I like the cornbread and toasted white bread idea. I would have liked to add nuts but as I mentioned there is a nut allergy in the family.

Years ago for many years running I made stuffing without nuts for a a T'giving regular who had a nut allergy. I'd mix all but the nuts, portion out a small amount that I'd then stuff the neck cavity with, and would then add nuts to the rest that I'd stuff the main cavity with. Worked fine for her. Now that she's gone I simply stuff the neck with an apple.

quote:

Perhaps some steel cut oats or wild rice cooked for 15 - 30 mins and drained could go in the stuffing to add some nuttiness?

I'd use wild rice.

quote:

Couple of q's:What's the difference between dressing and stuffing? Stuffing is cooked in meat, dressing is not?

Yes, but they've been used interchangeably for years. Those definitions are the ones I use.

quote:

Both you and Alan talk about basting ... I baste the bird with pan juice, but didn't go out of my way to baste the stuffing ... the neck stuffing on my bird was covered by a generous piece of skin and I covered the cavity stuffing with foil after a couple of hours ... are you talking about basting the stuffing or the bird?

Well, both, but I am focusing on the bird; the dressing drips on and into the stuffing.

I like copious drippings so I create them by making a baste ahead of time, probably 6-7 cups. Meanwhile, I sweat the onions, celery and apples for the stuffing till soft then make the stuffing. I make a single-layer bag out of chesecloth large enough to fit in the turkey cavity. (When the turkey is ready to be stuffed I'll put the bag in the bird and stuff the bag with about half the stuffing mix. Makes stuffing removal a breeze.)

A piece of doubled cheesecloth, 'stitched' with a piece of kitchen twine along the open long side and tied into a knot at one open end to form a bag; the bag in the bird; the bird with the overfilled bag:








The rest of the stuffing goes in a large baking pan and fridged. It will be finished when the bird comes out to rest.

After the bag is filled I take a compound butter



Then I separate the skin from the breast, above the legs, and the top of the thighs using my fingers and a soup spoon





and work the compound butter mix under the skin







Also, before the bird goes in I unfold then refold a 3-square-yard piece of cheesecloth so that it will fit as a blanket over the bird. (It ends up multi-layered, a good thing.) The bird goes in and I do nothing for 15-20 min or so, then I soak my 'blanket' in baste and drape the bird.

The bird, cheesecloth-draped and basted a time or two:



Because the blanket holds baste and at the early stage of cooking remains soft I can get away with basting less often. When I do baste I use a bulb baster and baste above and below the blanket. As the cook progresses the blanket stiffens and I baste a bit more frequently as it is unable to hold as much baste. (Eventually, toward the end of cooking, I remove it.)

Of course, sometime during the early stage I run out of my made baste and switch to the drippings in the pan. Those take a while to get going, as you know, but when they do they do. Those coupled with the baste gives me plenty. As dripping build I remove some and stash them. When the turkey is done I stash more drippings with what I've already got defat the rest in the pan to finish the gravy, and deglaze the pan. This gets poured into the drippings I will use to finish the gravy.

A little while before the turkey is done I remove the reserved stuffing I had put in the fridge to let it warm a bit. Immediately when the turkey is removed from the pan and the drippings poured to defat, I take some of my previously stashed drippings and stir them into the reserved stuffing. Then I pull the bag of stuffing out of the bird and mix it into pan with the reserved.

Pulling out the bag of cooked right into the pan of uncooked stuffing:



Because I cooked the aromatics before I made the stuffing in the first place they are soft, not hard and uncooked as they would be if I hadn't. This makes this final cooking relatively short. Also, because the stuffing for the bird has gotten very moist, mixing the two together makes for a good finish as the very moist bird stuffing mixes with the less moist reserved stuffing and they balance each other. This pan gets covered and placed in the oven while the turkey rests, along with anything previously made that needs to reheat. I will stir the stuffing mix a couple times, and about 5-7 min before serving will remove the foil cover so the top can get a little crisp.

I realize this is lengthy but also realized I couldn't really answer your question unless I explained my flow.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: K Kruger,

Dear Lord, my mouth is watering. All this talk has me yearning for some good traditional home cooking. Thats one of my favorite things about this time of year: the warmth of the oven, and the savory aroma of homecooking wasping thru the whole house.

If I can get the turkey, stuffing, gravy and potatoes perfect, I don't give a damn about anything else. My rolls and pecan and pumpkin pie are exactly as I want them to be, so at least I wont have to focus on these aspects this year.

quote:

Originally posted by Shawn W:
That sounds great Bryan, thanks for the panfried in butter reheat tip!

Hey Bud, It rocks. I like to get it kinda crispy on both sides. Let me know what you think.

quote:

Originally posted by K Kruger:
I realize this is lengthy but also realized I couldn't really answer your question unless I explained my flow.

Seriously, bring it on, type away. I greatly appreciate the time you take and the detail you provide in your answers. As so often happens your input has broadened my understanding of the topic. Thanks so much!

Stuffing and dressing were indeed used interchangeably in my house growing up.

I'm certainly going to try lining the bird with cheesecloth before stuffing and making a baste to begin basting before the pan drippings have accumulated. I also really like the idea to make more stuffing than will fit and mix it with the cooked stuff. The kids were fighting over the last of the stuffing so the more I can make the better plus it will give an option to adjust the moisture level.

I'm going to do a couple practice birds between now and Xmas just to try these new techniques and play with stuffing ideas.

Okay then, a few other tips for this:

Make about twice the amount of stuffing you'd normally make for just the bird:

Sweat any aromatics in unsalted butter till they are soft (doing this covered will speed the process). Mix the stuffing but avoid adding additional moisteners like stock at first and hold the egg(s), if you use eggs. Get the mix and seasoning right then divide the mixture in half. Stash one half in the fridge, covered. The half remaining you'll use for the bird. To this add any additional stock, melted butter, etc., and if using egg add it now.

For additional baste be generous. All I do is simmer about 6 or 7 c of turkey stock (or more if the turkey is large; you can use canned low-salt chicken if you'd prefer) with some peppercorns, stems from the parsley, sage and thyme I used in the stuffing, and, meanwhile, I reduce about 1.5 c cheap white wine (sauv. blanc or chenin blanc) by half. The wine gets added to the stock mix along with a couple sticks of unsalted butter and, off heat, several T of honey. This is what I use about 15-20 min after the turkey goes in and thereafter till it's gone.

(I cook the turkey on a rack in a pan. Under the rack I toss half a halved carrot, a celery rib, quartered, and and onion sliced thickly. When I start the turkey I add a little water to the pan so as not to scorch the vegs. I will add additional water as needed due to evaporation, the first several times I baste, until such time as it is no longer necessary--when the drippings really start building. I do want fond development so I don't add too much water, but nothing is worse than seriously scorching the vegs or the drippings to the point where they burn and get bitter.)

When the drippings start to really come I baste with those plus some of the baste I made (till that is gone) and I take some of the pan drippings out of the pan--a little at first, more as they increase--and stick them in a bowl or cup measure. When the turkey is about an hour from done I remove my fridged stuffing to allow it to warm toward room temp. Just before the turkey finishes I'll add egg to the stashed stuffing and mix in the drippings I've reserved. Then the rest of the flow goes as noted above, i.e., the turkey comes out (I remove the turkey on its rack to a sheetpan), drain any roasting pan juices, and remove the stuffing bag, mixing both the stuffings in a pan which gets immediately covered and stuck in the oven. Then I tent the turkey, deglaze the pan with the same wine that I used in the baste, finish the gravy, etc. Remember to stir the now-baking stuffing a couple times for better heat and moisture distribution and, if desired, remove the foil for the last several minutes so that the stuffing can crisp a little. I usually wait to do this till I carve. I put any casseroles or covered dishes into the oven to reheat at the same time I put the stuffing in to bake. Any other reheating that is being done on top of the stove happens as soon as I've finished the gravy. In 25-30 min (the time you'd want to rest the turkey anyway) I'm pulling the hot dishes out of the oven (except the stuffing) and putting whatever has reheated on top of the stove into chafers. Then I uncover the stuffing, carve and platter the turkey, pull the stuffing out, and dinner is on.

Edited some posts above to include clickable images of how and what I do with cheesecloth; the baste I make; the stuffing mix I make, skin separation, etc., that I shot on Thursday.



Finished, the roast turkey



the smoked turkey




and a platter of some of both



with (clockwise, from upper left) cranberry-ginger sauce, green beans with sassafras-smoked Aleppo bacon, grill-roasted Brussels sprouts with red grapes and lemon, sour cherry-Dijon sauce



and (from top) sweetpotato with chipotle-soour cream and Vermont white cheddar, the stuffing, sweetpotato with pecans and syrup, mashed potatoes, turkey gravy

That looks SOOOO good! Thanks for adding the pictures, I am completely sold on the cheesecloth thing.

Did you try it for the stuffing and/or baste ?

A big advantage is that you can be less concerned with stuffing temp. When the bird is a few degrees shy of your target you can remove the stuffing bag, split it open, and mix the cooked stuffing with the uncooked, leaving the bird in the oven to finish cooking. Now empty, it finishes sooner and the cavity gets good and hot without the stuffing in there. Turkey comes out, the stuffing goes in, covered, and thus reaches safe temps.

This was the first yoear I smoked the smoked one in advance, the day before. Not sure if I'll do it again that way or not but it worked out well and it was good to have one of the turkeys already done. I ate the wings after it rested out of the smoker and had some of the skin, additionally, from here and there, since it wouldn't be crisp the following day anyway--delicious and crisp. (I Minioned the start but let it trend up to the mid-300s over the cook time, finishing near 400. Made great skin.) One thing I neglected to mention: After working the compound butter (for both turkeys it was powder-ground black, white and green pepper, onion, garlic, and powdered lemon zest), I use the same bowl and mix olive oil and more spices together (with any bits of remaining butter mix) and apply to the outside of the birds.

No I haven't tried it yet, but I will be for Xmas dinner. Our T-day was in October, and I posted this stuffing thread after that.

There never seems to be enough stuffing so doing more will be a great thing plus like you say just yank it out to finifsh cooking by baking and not worry about getting the stuffing to temp inside the bird.

So this was a brined bird and you got nice crispy skin? Noticed your temps hit near 400 by the end ... I'm sure that helped.

You have the door cracked for minion method this way? I'm very leery of doing that, at least early on in the cook, before the charcoal has had a chance to light. You don't find you get 'that smell' from using the charcoal that way?

Yes, straight brined (water and salt only).

I am a skin fan (as are most of my guests) so I don't low/slow poultry. Higher temps are better for skin as is the butter under the skin and the oil (or butter or both) on the surface.

I don't see a need to crack the door early on in the cook so I don't, and only do so once the temps get as high as they are going to on their own, if I want still higher temps. For the smoked, I simply let the temps creep up, vents open till the lower mid-300s was reached, then closed vents a bit to maintain roughly that for much of the cook, then cracked the door slightly for the last 45 min or so.

Btw, the stuffing was in the 150s when I pulled it, quite likely safe as it's likely that it had held those temps for sufficient time. Still, since I make more than what the bird will hold and so plan to combine it with the uncooked mix anyway, safety is assured irrespective of the stuffing's temp when it comes out. Only the bird's finish temp really needs to be monitored.

quote:

I don't see a need to crack the door early on in the cook so I don't

That was a context issue, here in the Great White North I wouldn't see those temps with Minion method without cracking the door ... wasn't thinking about your setting , oops

I've got my three birds for Xmas, two 12s and an 18. Utilities, $0.98/lb. Took a lot of digging in freezers but I managed to find anatomically correct birds . Dinner for 25 people or so.

The 18 is going to be oven roast 'classic', I'll use the cheesecloth inside and out.

One 12 is going to be brined, skinned, oiled cajun rubbed. The other is going to get Chris's apple brine, no stuffing, but cheesecloth outside for basting. These two birds are going in the WSM.

I'm going to practice with the cheesecloth on a couple of chickens in the next couple of weeks.

? why is your baste white, opaque?

quote:

wasn't thinking about your setting , oops

I realized that, though, actually. The comments were on what I did but was thinking of your area as well. I am not looking for a fast come-up so did not use more lit than for a usual Minion. You might need a few more but if it takes a couple hours to hit the high 200s, no big deal. Then, if necessary, crack the door slightly to push the temps. I didn't have to do that--this cook--to hit the 300s because ambient temps were higher and I cook in the sun.

When I finally get to buy my first house, Kevin, Bryan and Shawn are on the first invite list to help break in the kitchen. You guys blow me away with your awesome culinary skills. I'll have all the beer, wine and spirits standing ready!

I am taking one new lesson away from all this holiday cooking this year, and that is how much I have found I enjoy sweet potatoes. Memphis Minnie's BBQ in San Francisco has the greatest homemade sweet potato pie I have ever eaten, but alas, the BBQ is below acceptable. And I think I ate sweet potato casserole for the first time this year. A cousin made it, I liked the flavor and texture, but too cloyingly sweet.

I succeeded in not snacking all day,and only went off my diet for dinner, so I'm glad to see that I didn't add a pound or two back on while I was down here. Actually dropped 6 more. Not even half way there though.