Now that I have your attention.

This summer I've been playing around with injections. I started with Chris Lilly's recipe, which got me thinking in terms of brine. So I started shooting a basic salt/sugar brine into everything (butts, briskets, ribs, chuck). I'm really impressed with what it can do and how it improves the texture of everything I've shot it into.

With that said, I'm hoping I could use the injection to boost flavor too, since the brine doesn't do much in terms of flavor other than up the saltiness.

I've tried adding few things like steak sauces and stock bases to the brine. Unfortunately these products darken the injection which resulted in noticeable staining and didn't boost the flavor like I hoped.

I thought I'd put this out there and see if any members here have had any success with flavor additions to their injections.

I'm using apple and pineapple juices with some salt and a bit of MSG, maybe a few other light colored things. I chop the solids up to a fine powder in a coffee grinder before mixing them with the liquid. It's worked well for me and I haven't noticed much staining. With a light colored cut of meat you might see a bit, though.

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I'm using apple and pineapple juices with some salt and a bit of MSG, maybe a few other light colored things.

I've been meaning to try pineapple. Seems like a good idea.

I never found apple to do much.

We're cooking some beef and pork for 100 people so it'll give us an opportunity to try out a few different things at the same time.

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Originally posted by j biesinger:

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I'm using apple and pineapple juices with some salt and a bit of MSG, maybe a few other light colored things.

I've been meaning to try pineapple. Seems like a good idea.

I never found apple to do much.

We're cooking some beef and pork for 100 people so it'll give us an opportunity to try out a few different things at the same time.

Fresh , not pasteurized pineapple or papaya juice might be worth a shot for the tenderizing properties. I read somewhere papain found in papaya is an excellent meat tenderizer.

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Originally posted by j biesinger:
... since the brine doesn't do much in terms of flavor other than up the saltiness.

There's plenty you can do, salt/sugar/liquid is the basic parts of a brine, you can add just about anything you want. You can use solid things like garlic or ginger, just strain before you inject. Same with rub, add some rub and if it doesn't dissolve, strain it first, but a lot of the flavors will be there.

I've injected my pork for 4 years and my scores were pretty good in pork

For idea, just look at brines and see what flavors. I've put several brines in Brining 101 for starters.

One note: A brine will carry flavors that are water-soluble. Some flavors, like capsaicin (the heat in hot peppers) aren't (they're oil-soluble, which if you know anything about Indian cooking explains a lot.) There's probably a guide online somewhere as to what flavors a brine will carry and which ones it won't. I can say that garlic and bay leaf work nicely with chickens, but I haven't experimented much with pork.

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One note: A brine will carry flavors that are water-soluble. Some flavors, like capsaicin (the heat in hot peppers) aren't (they're oil-soluble, which if you know anything about Indian cooking explains a lot.) There's probably a guide online somewhere as to what flavors a brine will carry and which ones it won't. I can say that garlic and bay leaf work nicely with chickens, but I haven't experimented much with pork.

thanks for the info. I'm pretty experienced with brines, I was hoping someone might suggest a product along the lines of bullion or beef base that would work.

Ah... it might be worth trying a Chinese-style chicken boullion. Lee Kum Kee makes a good one.

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Ah... it might be worth trying a Chinese-style chicken boullion. Lee Kum Kee makes a good one.

lots of msg, I'd guess.

I'm thinking of subbing some of the salt for msg and see what effect it has.

I was wondering if the phosphates I'm using was giving the meat a metallic off flavor. I'm starting to wonder if products like FAB and Butcher's have to be strongly flavored to mask the the phosphates.

tried another run with phosphates and didn't notice any off flavors. I'm left with the beef base, the meat, or my imagination.

I pumped the brine into a couple of butts and beef chuck roasts and it was amazing the difference between them and my non-brined controls.

4 cups beef broth (I had 1/4 cup, I meant 4 cups)
1 package Au jus gravy mix
1/4 cup soy sauce
1/4 cup worceshire sauce
2 tbsp hot sauce.

Similar recipes like this are floating around. I took one and adjusted it to this. you could do the same. This particular recipe does not darken the meat and it does not leave injection trails.

You could also use a beef consommé as an injection which is just a clarified beef soup/broth. It would add a punch of flavor but with a more clear color. You can probably find a canned version. Campbell's soup has a beef consommé, but it has a tomato puree in it, so it is not so clear.

Here is a brisket that I injected with this recipe. Notice the color of the brisket in the photos

http://backyard-barbeque.blogs...search/label/Brisket

Hope this helps

Weldon

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Weldon,

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4 cups beef broth (I had 1/4 cup, I meant 4 cups)
1 package Au jus gravy mix
1/4 cup soy sauce
1/4 cup worceshire sauce
2 tbsp hot sauce.

I made a quart of brine and added 3-4 T of a soy sauce like product and it darkened the mix enough that it was visible.

notice the dark and light areas of the brisket slices (they are hard to pick out in the pic but fairly noticeable when looking at a slice):

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Originally posted by j biesinger:

quote:

4 cups beef broth (I had 1/4 cup, I meant 4 cups)
1 package Au jus gravy mix
1/4 cup soy sauce
1/4 cup worceshire sauce
2 tbsp hot sauce.

I made a quart of brine and added 3-4 T of a soy sauce like product and it darkened the mix enough that it was visible.

notice the dark and light areas of the brisket slices (they are hard to pick out in the pic but fairly noticeable when looking at a slice):

It's hard to tell from the pictures,but I'll take your word for it.

When I first made this mixture, I was scared that it would stain the brisket, but it did not. I also let it sit for two days. Maybe with the longer time, it had time to distribute evenly? not sure. But, it did not stain. I have made similar injections that did stain, but they had red wine and/or chili powder. I've used this injection several other times and it did not stain any of those times, but you never know.

Weldon

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It's hard to tell from the pictures,but I'll take your word for it.

When I first made this mixture, I was scared that it would stain the brisket, but it did not. I also let it sit for two days. Maybe with the longer time, it had time to distribute evenly? not sure. But, it did not stain. I have made similar injections that did stain, but they had red wine and/or chili powder. I've used this injection several other times and it did not stain any of those times, but you never know.

the unstained, light spots are more apparent.

we don't have the luxury of 48 hours during a comp...unfortunately.

I don't think I'm going to worry though. I suspect most people that inject will have some kind of staining. and I'm hoping that a veneer of sauce will mask any faint marks.

Yep, 48 hours is a while. I am practicing for comps myself, but a few of the times that I injected, I did not cook the brisket the night that I meant to do so. One night I only let it rest for about 8 hours, but I had a lot going on and I did not take photos or document the cook. I did not notice any dark spots, but I was not paying that much attention. My next cook, I will let it marinate for only 6 to 8 hours and then give it a try.

What else do you put in your brine? I have noticed that some powdered spices leave trails.

This is a great discussion because I have been experimenting with different injections myself. I just need to make sure that I only let in marinate for a realistic time frame .

Thank you,
Weldon

Here's a few links on the subject

http://www.barbecuenews.com/Fo...c.asp?TOPIC_ID=20374

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/fo...owthread.php?t=22207

http://www.thepickledpig.com/f...335-brisket-mop.html

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/fo...dex.php/t-18314.html

http://bbq-brethren.com/forum/...page=2&highlight=FAB

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What else do you put in your brine? I have noticed that some powdered spices leave trails.

that's the question I'm asking.

I get good results with just the brine, as salt does wonders for flavors and moisture. I figure I could play with the liquid fraction some, but haven't found a beef product that does much for me.

one interesting experiment involved filling a quart canning jar with dried shrooms, garlic, onions, peppercorns, and bay leaves. I topped the jar off with the brine and let it age in the fridge for 2 weeks. The resulting liquid had a great flavor, unfortunately I didn't have anything to shoot it into so it went down the drain.

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Originally posted by j biesinger:

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What else do you put in your brine? I have noticed that some powdered spices leave trails.

that's the question I'm asking.

guess I haven't been much help

Back to the beef consomme. I'm going to give it a try. I'll let you know how it turns out. If I can find a true consomme, it should be clear enough not to stain.

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Big Grin guess I haven't been much help Confused

Back to the beef consomme. I'm going to give it a try. I'll let you know how it turns out. If I can find a true consomme, it should be clear enough not to stain.

either way, conversing with someone about a topic usually sparks something.

I was reading about using finer syringe needles, and turning the brisket a bunch to help the inject disperse. It sounds like the game plan is to evenly stain the whole flat, rather than to avoid staining completely.

it could be the difference between our techniques. I generally try to make as few holes as possible and fill each hole up as much as I can.

I generally inject every 1 inch because I once read that most marinades only penetrates 1/2 in into the meat. This usually works for me, but like I said before, I have still found injections that leave trails or are spotty. This could also be due to my own error. I recently upgraded to a better syringe so that will probably help.

Weldon